Creating structural, cost and time data linked to forms/models

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on May 17, 2010 at 11:34pm

http://geometrygym.blogspot.com/2010/04/parametric-structure-models...

Have you seen this? Which software do you use for structural analysis.

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on May 18, 2010 at 4:10pm

Yep, I saw that. That's pretty sweet! I'm using SpaceGass (Austrailian program). But was not thinking of linking the programs . . . that would be even better! But to be honest, I don't know where to start to get it to do that. My thought was to generate a 3d-dxf line drawing representing the centroids of all the sturctural members, this would then be pulled into SpaceGass for final analysis. My first thoughts were to have simple beam and column statics & deflection calculations & equations integrated with the gh def. as it produces the 3d model. This way I could get to a close solution that would then only need final checking & analysis in SpaceGass. What about material list, & cost data? Seen anyone getting into any of that? Thanks for the link again. Cheers!

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on May 19, 2010 at 12:25am

Hi Mike,

I'm an Aussie, and SpaceGass was the structural analysis program I used when I first started working as a Graduate. I've written the Rhino/Grasshopper plug-in to interact with a number of Structural Analysis programs (Robot, SAP, Sofistik, Strand7) but SpaceGass was the second version after GSA. I haven't compiled it lately as I haven't had much interest in the SpaceGass version, but if you'd like to try it out, I'll see what I can do with it within a week or so. The plug-ins work with the native text file representation of the structural model, so that you can exchange information such as material assignments, cross section profiles, numbering arrangement which are all lost in DXF exchange.

Adding a structural solver will slow down a Grasshopper definition (how much depends on the complexity of the program) but if a solution takes seconds to calculate, it's going to disrupt the user interaction of sliders etc. And the programming effort to develop all the display results, calculate loading etc is quite significant. Whilst I have done development in this area, I've taken the approach to build into my plug-in some simple form finding solvers (such as mesh relaxation and mesh inflation), but to be able to generate the Structural Analysis model data from Grasshopper and then be able to update section profile changes that arise from conducting the external analysis.

As for material list and cost data, I've been asked that question a few times this week in the meetings and presentations I've been doing, and I will be addressing that very shortly. At present I've been simply using the bill of materials created in GSA (or structural program), but I can see how a dynamic update of this would be really useful in Grasshopper.

I will try and upload the Grasshopper plug-in for space gass as soon as possible, but GSA do offer a 30 day free trial of their software, so if you have the interest, I'd recommend taking a closer look at the work I've done. It might save you a lot of programming that I've already done and you can concentrate on advances and enhancements (it is possible to utilize the data structures I've created and the functions I enable within your own coding).

Cheers,

Jon

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on May 19, 2010 at 4:49pm

I'd love to try out the SpaceGass version that you wrote! The material, cross sections, and numbering would be a great help and if they can interact pretty well, then there is certainly no need to have GH do any load/deflection calcs.
I see what you mean about a structural solver in GH, it would certainly slow things way down - although it could be activated with a boolean and kept off most of the time. But with the (mostly) seamless integration with SpaceGass, there's no need - as long as when it updates you don't have to re-assign loading & restraint conditions.

I am a designer&Builder (Architect&General Contractor) and build all of my own projects so the materials and cost are very important for me to be able to see them in (semi)real time as I am designing.

I'll take a look at GSA, but cost is a critical issue right now & I have SpaceGass, so I don't really see making the switch any time soon.

Thanks for sharing,
Cheers!
Mike

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on May 18, 2010 at 6:01pm

Jon, did you make the gh definitions that creates structural steel beams? If so, did you do it by linking GSA & its shape library to get the geometry? I made a very simple one that uses an acad .dxf polyline (I have the entire library of steel shapes in .dxf, but only .dxf at this point). I'm really still a beginner at GH & Rhino, but maybe I'm doing alright. I still have just a single beam here, but it is defined by a point and a ref. plane which can be generated by other definitions, series of points or something - I'll get to that later. I'm still trying to get it to output a sort of schedule (or spreadsheet) that will include all of the information at the far right, bm weight, length, & cost. Any ideas?

Attachments:

• gh5.jpg, 800 KB

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on May 19, 2010 at 12:34am

Hi Mike,

I programmed all the structural profiles myself (from various tables of data provided by milling companies). Users of the plug-ins can also create their own libraries of custom profiles in Rhino documents. I thought I'd post an image of a Grasshopper definition creating a structural beam using my plug-in for comparison. I don't have a bill of materials calculation option yet, but it won't take me long to add it in.

Cheers,

Jon

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on May 19, 2010 at 5:00pm

That's certainly much simpler than my version. I'm not sure why I went with a provision to rotate the beam about X & Z axes . . . I'm pretty sure I had something in mind, but can't think of it at the moment. Do I assume correctly that that you created the Component? Material and cost data are right in there if you have the volume of the solid, with some output calcs & tags. I like the simplicity.

I've not gotten to the stage of creating my own components yet, but I'm working on it.
Cheers!

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on May 20, 2010 at 12:34am

Hi Mike,

Yes, rotations about the X axes is typically all that is needed for orientation, although not in my component yet, there is provision for end offsets, although I haven't added it into the grasshopper component yet.

The grasshopper components are actually not to difficult to generate, what's trickier is how you'll link them to a central database to do the summations, unless you only use a central component type with a static/shared variable system.

I had a look at getting the SpaceGass version of my plug-in compiling yesterday, only took a short while to get get it compiling, so if you're interested, I'll run a couple of quick tests and then post it on the wiki if you want to try it.

Cheers,

Jon

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on May 20, 2010 at 8:13pm

I'm interested, thanks. I have SpaceGass version 8.07b/32, will it work with that? Nice work, thanks Jon! I'll let you know how it works out!
Cheers!
Mike

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on June 26, 2010 at 11:30pm

Hi Mike,

Sorry, it's taken some time to get the SpaceGass version updated.
I've now made the plug-in more consistent with Grasshopper in that you need to bake the structural elements and nodes to activate them in the Rhino plug-in, and also made some fundamental core changes so I can easily add features such as Bill of material summaries etc.

If you're still interested in looking at the tools, download from http://www.geometrygym.com/downloads, and if you get in touch I'll help you with some examples etc to get you started.

Cheers,

Jon

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on June 30, 2010 at 10:08pm

That's great Jon! I've downloaded it and should have some time in the next few weeks to get it loaded & try it out. I'll let you know here when I get to a point where I could use a little push with it.

Cheers!
-Mike

Permalink Reply by Mike Calvino on October 29, 2010 at 4:26pm

HI Jon, thanks for putting up the group. I loaded the SSI for SpaceGass. I loaded Grasshopper after installing the Ssi. I had to turn off the developerSettings box, but then I got an error. I uploaded the error file. I had spacegass running with a file open as well. Is it something simple I'm missing I hope?
Cheers!
Mike

Attachments:

• GH_Load_Ex.txt, 4 KB

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