Question for Teachers/Instructors

This has come up a number of times, but I thought I'd ask one more time before I start typing.

Would it, or would it not, be useful to have a switch between Expert and Beginner modes in the Grasshopper UI? At the most basic level this would involve hiding freaky components from the Beginner mode, but I imagine that I could also hide items from popup menus and other UI elements.

As there are more and more components every release, being able to hide the geeky ones must be a relief for beginners. Or am I wrong?

David Rutten

david@mcneel.com

Poprad, Slovakia

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Luis Fraguada on April 18, 2011 at 2:44pm

Maybe this once I would say you are wrong. The way I teach GH is through Data Types. If one can understand one component and how to feed it its appropriate data types, then one, with time, should be able to understand all. A beginner course should not be an exhaustive trip through each and every component, but instead focus on concepts and the components behind these. Then, it is always beneficial to show a beginner the other end of the spectrum, to show them what is possible with time.

On the other hand, I would be curious to know of some example software that does this well. The standard that I see is that beginner mode includes a GUI and expert mode does away with all buttons/gadgets and then just leaves the 'canvas.' I do not find that all that useful cause maybe I will never be an such 'expert' in photoshop that I do not need buttons, panels, and menus.

My $0.02. Thanks for asking!

Permalink Reply by Danny Boyes on April 18, 2011 at 3:24pm

As a user who started with EH it's hard to look at Grasshopper with fresh eyes with regards to all the components. I await each release with 'bated breath to see what the next components to add to arsenal will be, but realise a new comer might find the shear mass daunting. Where to begin....

Here lies the crux of the matter 'What is one man's geek, is another's elemental'.

What do you do if the right way to achieve a desired effect lies masked in the dark arts of expert mode? I often find myself hovering over components on the toolbar to be reminded that there are other ways out there away from my favorites. For example basic components in a combination Length, Series, Shift, Split and then CP can get you a means of measuring every point against all others in a list but in 6 or 7 components you can achieve the same as one namely 3D Proximity.

What happens if you are a new comer and ask a question on the forum that is answered by geeks who use geeky components, do you shy away from trying to understand it because you're a beginner or do you embrace it as the GH way to get the results?

Where is the middle ground? Which components are geeky?

Is this not covered with Draw All Components option?

Is there maybe a better way of assigning toolbar real estate based on usage, don't get me wrong I like Markov but haven't really embraced it in my work flow. (Unless it could pop up on middle button click around the mouse cursor for a trial?

Permalink Reply by David Rutten on April 18, 2011 at 4:51pm

"Is this not covered with Draw All Components option?"

I meant really hide. They won't show up in panel dropdowns. Not in the search box, not anywhere.

I imagine people switch over to Expert (or Intermediate) mode very quickly, in a matter of days or even less, but the initial cold shower is at least 3 degrees warmer if you're staring at 300 components instead of 600.

Entire Ribbon panels would disappear for example (Math.Domain, Math.Util, Sets.Tree, Vector.Colour, Mesh.Triangulation, Transform.Group, Transform.Util at a first glance). As well as a lot of components in the remaining panels. I'd say at least 50% of what's there now will be gone.

I can draw additional information in the ribbon indicating that one is currently in beginner mode and how to switch to advanced mode etc. etc.

David Rutten

david@mcneel.com

Poprad, Slovakia

Permalink Reply by David Rutten on April 18, 2011 at 3:28pm

All right, I guess it's not worth investing time and effort into this.

I'll focus on writing a decent Settings UI instead.

David Rutten

david@mcneel.com

Poprad, Slovakia

Permalink Reply by Mårten Nettelbladt on April 18, 2011 at 3:09pm

What about all the rest of us who are neither beginners nor experts? :) Perhaps beginners could enable a Tab Called "Getting started" or something (with a question on first start-up)? In that way, all the other tools would still be there.

Permalink Reply by David Rutten on April 18, 2011 at 4:53pm

True, the bulk of users are 'perpetual intermediates'. Perhaps advanced mode is better than expert mode. Or maybe I'm-new-to-this mode and I-know-what-I'm-doing mode...

David Rutten

david@mcneel.com

Poprad, Slovakia

Permalink Reply by Arthur Mamou-Mani on April 18, 2011 at 3:24pm

Hi David,

I don't think this would be particularly useful as beginners might already want to do a very specific task which include complicated components. It could be confusing. We also learn from discovering weird buttons.

Cheers,

Arthur

Permalink Reply by David Rutten on April 18, 2011 at 4:55pm

"We also learn from discovering weird buttons."

Undoubtedly true. But I suspect that sort of learning won't happen until you've learned to hook up a Line component to two Point parameters. I think it's safe to assume that when one is confronted with Grasshopper for the first time, every component is a weird component.

David Rutten

david@mcneel.com

Poprad, Slovakia

Permalink Reply by dvdrbls on April 18, 2011 at 3:28pm

i like the idea of an expert mode, for space in the canvas for larger definitions or in a beginner mode with more tool aids and tool tips maybe this could help to improve the learning curve, as a beginner some times i have to use so many components to make something to work later on i realize how could i do the same with few components and this happens to me all the time

Permalink Reply by Chris Tietjen on April 18, 2011 at 3:40pm

Well, let's see...I started out as a beginner and I know I was drawn into experimenting with new components because I would constantly see them in the menus as I used the familiar ones. I think that their constant visual presence (though often without functional meaning) contributed to a quicker assimilation of both their location in the menu scheme (category association) and an interest in trying to figure out their applicability. Even now as new components are added I find I'm following the same learning scheme and I can't imagine that I would want to hide any of them (502).

Chris

Permalink Reply by Philipp on April 18, 2011 at 4:13pm

maybe it is more interesting to make an Expert mode to hide components pallete at all (couse experts know what they need so they can use search typing the names?

Permalink Reply by Danny Boyes on April 18, 2011 at 4:16pm

In MS Office 2010 you can hide the ribbon by double clicking the Tab Name and it comes back when you click it again.