Butterfly and HumanUI: an outdoor CFD example

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mostapha Sadeghipour Roudsari on November 22, 2016 at 9:13am

Olivier,

If you use Heat Transfer recipe Butterfly with consider surface temperatures in solution.

For the case of optimization maybe you should try to make a 2D analysis instead of decreasing the mesh quality.

Finally you can use Grading not to mesh all the wind tunnel equally and only generate denser meshes around your building.

Mostapha

Permalink Reply by Theodoros Galanos on November 22, 2016 at 5:48pm

Hi Olivier,

I second Mostapha's suggestions. I would start with a 2D case in which you can actually increase the mesh quality and still have it run incredibly fast. Also the buyoant solver in the Heat Transfer recipy can consider all heating/temperature effects. You can assign temperatures to walls, bodies or other surfaces, even the air.

Interesting stuff, keep us updated.

Kind regards,

Theodore.

Permalink Reply by Olivier Dambron on November 28, 2016 at 5:08am

Mostapha and Theodoros,

Many thanks for helping.
I have figured out how to use grading to generate denser mesh where needed. Very Useful!
2D cases are convenient, I will post some results of optimisations.

On the thermal end:
Although Butterfly is already making things user-friendly like none other, I am still limited by my scarce knowledge on CFD simulations which I am trying to cope with by fumbling around openfoam forums.

I am still unable to use the heat transfer recipe correctly in the indoor example definition. Most of the stepbystep Tutorials are provided with OpenFoam lines which I have come to find uneasy to interpret with what is already written in the components of Butterfly.
I am gaining experience thanks to you.

I am still unsure of how to set the conditions for a box (heatsource at 37 C, bodytemp) to visualise stack effect in the room.

1. Is it necessary to set custom boundary conditions for this case? If yes, would you recommend a library of the corresponding parameters for different generic items?
As a simplification, could the wallboundary be used to create the geometry and input the temperature ?

2. in the createBgeometry component,must the Jagged component be plugged into meshset?

3. Is the temperature of the Inlet, the temperature of the fluid/air entering the room?

4. With the heat transfer recipe blindly plugged into the solution. I am not sure how to solve these errors:

"Radiation model not active: Radiation properties not found

...


--> FOAM FATAL ERROR:
Continuity error cannot be removed by adjusting the outflow.
Please check the velocity boundary conditions and/or run potentialFoam to initialise the outflow."


Thank you for your patience and for kindly considering these questions.

Best,
Olivier

Permalink Reply by Lasse Hamborg on November 28, 2016 at 2:37pm

Hi Olivier.

Sorry to interrupt, but your case study caught my attention as I was checking for any updates in the fora on Butterfly and temperature.

That is exactly because I am currently doing my masters thesis on exactly stratification in atria and big semi-outdoor rooms.
I am testing a bunch of variables and I was thus looking into utilizing Butterfly. However, this new update came too late in the process for me to fully test out.

I am very interested in your findings, as I had to go to the old fashion (and correct but yet very slow) way of using Ansys Fluent for my investigations.

I would however very much like to compare my results with the ways of the parametric tools, i.e. Butterfly: How valid are the results of BF so far? What could be optimized? When is the parametric tool favourable over the hardcore tools when considering these factors? What are the future objectives?

Could I therefore borrow your script later on at some point to use for my own to generate some analyses?
Or would it maybe be possible for you to (in a month or so?) to create a very basic template script that is prepared for temperature analyses in an very simple atrium-like room maybe with an inlet and outlet as you are (or seem to be) making them? I am willing to go with NDA or give full credit to you and your work.

Very interesting what you are doing!!

Regards

Lasse Hamborg

Permalink Reply by Mostapha Sadeghipour Roudsari on November 29, 2016 at 9:51am

Hi Olivier,

I think we need a little bit more time to make sure all the default values for the 'Heat Transfer' recipe is set correctly, and also provide a more comprehensive example on how to use it for examples such as the ones that you mentioned.

Hi Lasse, A comparative study between the results of your work and Butterfly will be quite variable. Except for the time that you need to run the cases it should take a very short amount of time to generate the options. I have to add that since Butterfly is using OpenFOAM to run the analysis, the first step is to look for similar comparative studies between Fluent and OpenFOAM. We can use your findings to compare, modify the default boundary conditions, however, you are able to set your own OpenFOAM boundary conditions as desired using butterfly. Also check the comparison here.

Mostapha

Permalink Reply by Lasse Hamborg on November 30, 2016 at 5:12am

Roudsari,Ok, so the results of BF can be assumed (or proved?) to be the very same as those from OpenFOAM?

Yes I know about that comparison. Zarisu is a good friend of mine actually, so I've been on the sideline on that comparison. But my interest is within the thermal investigations in big indoor spaces/semi-outdoor spaces as I am studying temperature distributions in atria. So it was regarding those kind of comparisons.

I sure hope I have time within my project to test out BF and hopefully compare to Ansys. I'd btw be using the k-w SST solver in Ansys. Which solvers are available in BF for indoor studies?

- Lasse

Permalink Reply by LAMINE Mohammed on January 9, 2017 at 8:00am

hi everyone

I am very excited about the implementation of CFD into the grasshopper environment and I tried the definition attached above but it generated an error, I wish you could help me out find a solution. I attached a screenshot of the problem. thank you

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wood on February 10, 2017 at 3:37am

Hi,

Does this definition work with the 0.0.03 version of butterfly? Like Lamine above, I get exception errors asking if butterfly is installed, yet when I run other butterfly definitions, they work as expected.

Many thanks in advance.

Permalink Reply by Omid Rashidi on February 10, 2017 at 3:59am

Hi Andrew, You need to update manually this def with reinserting new components.

Some way was changed in new version. Or it's better, you can switch this approach(H UI) to Butterfly Sample files locate in Butterfly installation folder.

Regards,

Omid.

Permalink Reply by Omid Rashidi on February 10, 2017 at 4:04am

In this path, you can find them:

C:\Users\%UserNAME%\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\5.0\scripts\Butterfly\\

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wood on February 10, 2017 at 4:07am

Hi Omid,

Ah, I did wonder if that was the case, I started tow swap out some components, but they have slightly different terminals etc, so the definition can't easily be swapped about.

I'll take a look at the sample folders..

Thanks again.

PS, if anyone manages to update the definition in this thread to work with the new version of butterfly, I'd appreciate the link, I'm quite new to Grasshopper and find it quite daunting!

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wood on February 10, 2017 at 4:08am

Hmm, no demo files in that location?

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