possible unbiased rendering engine integration in GH?

Well, this is a rather strange question, maybe doesnt make sense, but I wonder if there is any possibilities in the future for GH and Mcneel to approach TOPnotch rendering platform (for example, like Maxwell render), to have a good integration within RHino+GH? (no Penguin or other biased rendering)

Vray doesn't really take rhino seriously, as Vray for rhino version is always falling behind Vray for 3dsmax. ( have to admit it bcz all rendering platform focus more on big 3D software like Max or Maya ).

Maxwell is the only thing that offers rhino its maximum capabilities and function, because the software works like an open plug in, meaning that it is a separate system that does not interfere with Rhino's, (I am not sure if I describe it correctly, as I am not familiar with computer language)

however, Maxwell has some limitation mainly because they are not within rhino system itself, just an extension plug-in. It cannot override rhino's command, one case is when u hit render, rhino has to export the model into plug-in native object before rendering process begin.(not to mention maxwell camera and rhino camera does not match), creating a complex model ( big exterior rendering ) will suffocate and limit rhino capabilities of computing complex geometry.

Considering rhino 6 and GH 2.0 will probably come out next year, any possibilities for rhino to come up with better way to handle visualization? (rendering)???, just imagine an un-biased rendering engine with Grasshopper, how powerful that would be.

pardon if I am a little bit like a brat, asking a lot of strange question, but my concern is all about making rhino+GH to become the most versatile 3D modeller in the world ( it does now, but needs to add more and more and more stuff :D )

thanks,

~for those who do Architectural Design+planning-3dmodelling-and rendering work as their daily job, please feel free to join this discussion :))) ~

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hannes Löschke on January 24, 2015 at 5:55am

For Maxwell and GH take a look at Scarab.

Permalink Reply by Runnie on January 24, 2015 at 10:28pm

@ Mateusz Zwierzycki thanks for your reply :)
I was talking about conceptual stage of their work, not their final visualization that we see on the news or magazine, BIG has posted some videos on youtube of how the designers and the team approach the design, they do a "conceptual" visualization by themself at the very first stage. he has his own modelling and visualization team that is geared towards producing "what is right and artistic in architect's eyes"
totally different from Viz company that is focus on creating "photorealistic and beautiful picture".
The way me and my team work is similar to that, except we are demanded to produce a highquality rendering during the "1st stage" (to get approval from the client) after all is done, then I dont have to worry about outsourcing for final product (u know, those kind of rendering to be used for advertising and marketing stuff)
I do agree that photorealistic rendering is for movie industry, but that was decades ago, nowadays, every architecture product produces 3D rendering, and if you look at Maxwell or Vray website, they have built specific shader control and even 3D model to support arch viz..
I am not saying there isnt any good rendering engine for rhino, Ive been using Maxwell for rhino and so far it satisfies me. however, it can be better if there is a direct integration between 3d and rendering.
Rhino is a very powerful 3D modeller (much more versatile than 3dsmax IMO (exclude the animation) )
but it lacks the tool for visualization.

peace

Permalink Reply by Runnie on January 24, 2015 at 10:33pm

@ Hannes Löschke Ive looked at scarab, it is helpful only during render set up, but still, maxwell rendering process is done outside Rhino.(some great procedural texture and IES editor also can only be done in maxwell studio, not rhino)

in contrast with 3dsmax, they have full control over the whole rendering interface INSIDE the software itself.

T^T thanks for the generous reply,buddy :)

it is nice to know there are other people also pay close attention to this matter :)

peace

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on January 25, 2015 at 12:57am

BTW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUrt8-aHJjs

Other than the stunning aesthetics, spot the volumetric rendering (I would suggest a CUDA/Tesla system instead of a "render farm" for that one).

With this "simple" example in mind think: would/could make any sense for McNeel to attempt to offer similar capabilities within Rhino? NO, NO and NO : this sector is "sealed" my friend and nobody should try to penetrate (unless he wants to blow a zillion dollars without any investment break point on sight).

Permalink Reply by Hannes Löschke on January 25, 2015 at 5:18am

I'm not sure if you mean Maxwell integration into 3dsMax or the native 3dsMax render engine.

If this is about Maxwell, then what you see is not integration but availability of certain features through the plugin. Procedurals are pretty easy in 3dsMax because the native 3dsMax material already supported procedurals, like ages ago. Since Rhino native materials don't support procedurals, the NextLimit guys would need to invent the whole interface and make it work with Rhino.

Scarab will resume active development in a few days and yes, one of the goals is to provide access to features, that might not yet be available through the default plugin. Another goal is "baking" GH geometry directly to Maxwell. But frankly, given the current download rates and interest in Scarab, I don't see how this will ever pay off. I can understand the NextLimit guys' focus on animation and rendering packages like 3DSMax or C4D while keeping the Rhino plugin on a lower priority.

As for the rendering process being done "outside"... well that's true for basically every render engine out there. You may not see a separate render application pop up but all the number crunching is done in separate processes. If not, you get conditions like the default Rhino render engine, where rendering an image completely blocks Rhino.

Any render engine that works while you still can work with your application, will need to kind of "export" the data. The efficiency of this export step depends on how compatible the data is. Since basically every render engine is mesh-based and Rhino is dedicated to NURBS geometry, you will always have to convert NURBS to mesh before the render can start.

Permalink Reply by Hyungsoo Kim on January 25, 2015 at 9:42am

Hi, Runnie.

Have you ever heard about "neon"?

McNeel already have integrated iteractive 3D ray-tracing viewport plug-in for Rhino 5, but I am not quite sure the progress.

Neon has Brazil render engine.

Try to get to visit here & there .

Permalink Reply by Runnie on January 28, 2015 at 7:40am

@ Hannes Löschke thanks for the reply buddy. what I meant is that there is no direct connection between Maxwell and Rhino. ( if you hv used maxwell for rhino, you would know how the compatibility differs from vray for 3dsmax). there are some cool feature in maxwell that can only be done in maxwell studio, not in rhino, not to mention crash and bugs during conversion from NURBS to Mesh, no IES display in rhino viewport, etc, there are few things that needs additional tweaks from outside rhino

actually I dont want to ask much for Mcneel, just one wish if only we can access maxwell material from Grasshopper, ( really get each maxwell shader parameter ) procedural texture or other awesome complex material assignment will be very easy.. ( grass or maxwell sea extension in Grasshopper? oh my god it would be awesome )

yes I know every renderer needs to convert geometry prior to rendering. but my experience working with Vray (rhino and max), maxwell has the most crash issue.

@Hyungsoo Kim mmm there are so many rendering platform outthere, sure there are some other alternative besides maxwell and Vray. but currently only those 2 (and maybe brazil) have the biggest material resource that you can download on the net. I would rather go for the one that is popular in the market.