Michael Graves, Digital Visionary: What Digital Design Practice Can Learn From Drawing

Comment

Comment by RWNB on September 16, 2012 at 6:59am

(:

of course there is a difference to the american debt problem,
but are we the specialists to talk about it in detail?
i can not demonstrate for you now, but there are elevations
who represent the dramatic rise of the debt
since the 1990 and with the liberalization in Europe.

however, america can be seen as a cautionary example.
all the reforms that we are currently doing,
pursues the goal to establish american conditions in Europa.
therefore we can certainly learn from the americans....

unfortunately, you realize this when it is too late, maybe not..
also in germany were used with pay to make people afraid.
this is the last government in germany succeeded.
we have believed in the reform of gerhard schröder.
now he and his friends worked for putin.
of course now the conditions are getting better for global organisations (gazprom),
but not for a employee in germany.

vicente but i fear that we will not come to an agreement.
i'd give you right, if you have a lot of money on your bank account. (:

if you are not very wealthy, you should absorb this video like a mantra. (:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3LaK-QhU1w

Comment by Vicente Soler on September 16, 2012 at 5:30am

I see you are still on topic.

 

Spain's government debt problem has not much to do with income inequality. For example, to make it to the "one percent" in the USA, that supposedly has a much higher income inequality than Spain, you need to make €262,179 a year.

I don't have a figure for Spain, but I imagine is much lower, even in the supposed case that the american poorest are poorer than spanish poorest (but who cares about standard of living in absolute terms, just as long as some are not living way better than others).

 

Now, to pay the accumulated Spanish national government debt, each of the one percent in Spain must pay around €3,400,000. If after they manage to do this revenues don't fall (this is magical thinking, of course) each of the one percent still needs to pay around €425,000 a year to close the gap between revenues and spending.

And, if this isn't enough, I haven't added to all of this the debt accumulated from all the regional governments.

 

Yesterday here in Madrid there were tens of thousands of people protesting austerity cuts. Even with these cuts, if all of those people acquired pitchforks went on a looting rampage on the wealthiest people in Spain and gave the spoils to Hacienda (the Spanish revenue agency), it would burn through all that money in just a few months before it needs to start borrowing again.

Comment by RWNB on September 16, 2012 at 1:11am

dear vicente,

i found this worth to mentioning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/books/review/the-price-of-inequal...

thanks

Comment by Vicente Soler on September 11, 2012 at 12:17pm

Angel, this thread started about conservative vs progressive ideology, so we haven't really gone off topic. We can even talk about religion now and still be on topic.

Comment by RWNB on September 11, 2012 at 12:10pm

he vicente,

Spain is not a banana republic!
...

you've got the best football. (-:
and pay a lot of money for your football players...................................
or pay soon the German taxpayer? (-:

if european countries are in a negative competition with each others,
(e.g when they fight with tax benefits, and cheap labor costs)
then it is difficult to defeat Germany!

Germany created around himself banana republic. (-: (sorry)

let us not operate against each other,
but rather with each other.

by the way, i don't hate the term of reform,
if this can be interpreted as design and agreement of the majority.

Comment by Ángel Linares on September 11, 2012 at 11:41am

Mmm... Was this conversation in the past about 2d traditional drawing vs computer based representation? I can't remember... :P

I don't know if you have it but tv and global media ensures my global-economy-political pessimistic dose...it's not bad (is really good indeed) talk this stuff with people from other countries to build a wide point of view about the situation... But IMHO perhaps it's better to keep that topics for a good off topic post or a meeting with some good beers (in that case for sure I'll choose a german or czech one... In Spain we make some kind of things really well, but the beer is not our best product :P)

PS. Be patient I'm doing exams. Next week I'll upload some definitions to blurry paths.

Comment by Vicente Soler on September 11, 2012 at 11:25am

The "global financial world" allows countries to borrow money from people around the world and spend more than they are able to collect in revenues. So, if you hate reforms that try to close the gap between spending and revenues  you should like globalized finance and its ability to fool people around the world into lending money to banana republics like my country.

 

Germany is in much better shape, but they are still trying to lower spending because revenues have fallen and if they just borrow the difference interest rates will go up. So most germans will benefit in the long run.

 

Obviously reforms are hard for people affected by it, but if government spending becomes too high compared to revenues, no one around the world would want to lend us money and our government would have to live within its means, that means much much deeper cuts.

Comment by RWNB on September 11, 2012 at 9:47am

hi vincente,

it was only loud outspoken thoughts, with the know,
that two spanish guys be heard. :-)

incidentally, under the dominance of the global financial world,
is also germany powerless. therefore, germany should not be considered one-sided.

perhaps we should all be ashamed of?

the problem, who the individual european states have, based solely in, that on economic level
are pitted against each other, because they are not united politically.

germany had also large problem. here the reforms have been made​​, what you still "must" to do.
reforms will be very hard for most people, also for many spanish people.
the problem will be, that if your reform act, we will begin with new reform, and so on.
that's economics, global economy.

there then remains the question, who benefits from the reforms?
most german have no benefit thereby.

therefore must also be considered:
why must our ideology be the maximization of money?
and that's what i assume michael graves, even if he does not want to know more about it.

vincente, a little utopia?

rassul

Comment by Vicente Soler on September 11, 2012 at 8:45am

OT:

RWNB, I find it interesting you felt the need to drift off topic into Spain's economic woes, you being from Germany, who is taking the bill for Spain's trouble, and the other two of us commenting here being from Spain.

I really feel ashamed that I will probably end up using some of your hard earned money without giving anything in return.

About computer algorithms on only profiting shareholders. Anything a business does is for the purpose of increasing profits for its shareholders, be it digital or analogic. The default expectation for every individual is to look after their own self-interest.

About the "European political space". I don't think concentrating more political power in Brussels is going to solve anything. For what I can tell, the smaller the country or the more decentralized the political power, the higher the standard of living is. This way there is competition between states since people can more easily vote with their feet, and competition makes things better. Governments work as diseconomies of scale, the smaller they are the more efficient they get.

Comment by RWNB on September 11, 2012 at 7:44am

some thoughts!

 

i don’t know about michael graves works, but since most of postmodern architects, like michael graves, whose impact is founded, that they questioning the dictates of modernity and thus the compulsion to constantly new, and instead their focus directed on the important achieved historical values. by the inflationary or use empty content, unfortunately this movement has lost its significance.

 

but not the original idea of the postmodern movement. she is still more relevant than ever. for example, the Spanish people should be able to understand that (:-)), where her society has also great difficulties, while the market always bring new strategies to driven the society before.

 

if we talk here about compeuter, then it should also be mentioned, how the banks conduct their business with sophisticated algorithms, in which the focus is not aimed at the growth of folk economies, but rather the dividend of shareholders.

 

therefore, should be much more radical asked: what value should have the computer technology for a society (see Lars Spuybroek: The Sympathy of Things), and mental effort to be accomplished, to free us from the dictates of avantgarde-postwar era.

 

patrik schumacher is a good example. his book the autopoiesis of architecture, he sees it as a manifesto of the younger avantgarde architectural movement, what patrik schumacher called parametrizismus. in the tradition of the modern avantgarde architecture, he see in the parametrizismus a new international style of contemporary architecture. consequently, patrik schumacher sees into the work of zaha hadid architects the principle of formal innovation as a key feature of their efforts, without the notion of the avantgarde recharge with any ideological conceptions or value, apply here only the “new” as the most important, and ultimately most consume charming and thus profitable value.

 

not to mention, that patrik schumacher appropriates the system theory of niklas luhmann, which is known precisely, that it is anti-humanist and anti-regionalist.

 

again, spain's problems can only be solved, even though that Spain is attributed a political space. This will only happen, if it is awarded a european political space, so that the individual states can not be pitted against each other. to come back to the computer technology and architecture, i find, that right there set the book by lars spuybroek: we should be raising us, what values ​​would be created in “old europe”, and this bring with the computer again into a live.

 

p.s. dear àngel, i need your wet thread definition. (-:

rassul_wassa@gmx.de

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