LB_ENVI-Met

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by djordje on February 27, 2017 at 8:29am

Yes, that's why I pointed out their webpage with this photo.
My argument was that: if we are comparing the results then also the parameters need to be the same.

If nothing is added to the clothingInsulation_ input of "Body characteristics" component, it will calculate the clothes thermal insulation. While in your case, a fixed value of 0.9 is used in BioMet. The same goes for metabolicRate_: it is using a value of 135 W/m2 by default (2.32 mets), while in BioMet you seem to be using some other value.
All of this may not affect result much, but at least the parameters for comparison are the same.

Permalink Reply by Abraham Yezioro on February 27, 2017 at 8:44am

Of course!!!

-A.

Permalink Reply by djordje on February 27, 2017 at 8:58am

Okay. Sorry for being picky.

Just out of curiosity: in your simulation, these are some of the places where trees should be located? Does BioMet have an ability to show these context trees while also presenting the PET analysis mesh?

Attachments:

• ENVImet_trees.jpg, 53 KB

Permalink Reply by Abraham Yezioro on February 27, 2017 at 9:20am

No problem :-)

From Spaces here is how it looks:

Biomet is just a post processing calculation (just as your LB_ThermalComfortIndices). After calculation a new directory is created (Biomet) and under it another set of directories are also created depending on the comfort model you asked for (PMV, PET and/or UTCI). Then you can open these calculations in Leonardo for visualization.

-A.

Permalink Reply by djordje on February 27, 2017 at 9:31am

Thank you both for the attached photo and detailed explanation Abraham!

Permalink Reply by Antonello Di Nunzio on February 27, 2017 at 10:57am

Hi Abraham,

Thanks for your tests and your report.
I have been making some changes, I'll keep you posted.

- Antonello

Permalink Reply by Abraham Yezioro on February 27, 2017 at 11:39am

My pleasure and thank you for putting this to the public.

Just for Djordje and you to know the Biomet calculations, for the same case, took much longer than in LB. Weird ah?

-A.

Permalink Reply by djordje on February 27, 2017 at 11:42am

@Abraham: Definitively weird!

@Antonello: We are all eager to see the changes!!

Permalink Reply by Antonello Di Nunzio on February 27, 2017 at 10:49am

Hi Djordje,

Thanks for this change, PET calculation works great even with LB Envimet components now!

Permalink Reply by Michael Bruse (ENVI_MET) on February 27, 2017 at 3:14pm

Hi all,

so many thanks for your inspiring work concerning getting ENVI-met and Grasshopper together.

Let me answer some of the Q raised here:

PET: First of all, there is no standard guideline on how to calculate PET. There is the Höppe paper from 1984 which is in German and mostly mo one have everread that. The often cited 1999 paper doesn't give any insights into the calculation methods. It's completely useless to that extend.

So all of the calculation methods available are basically a code-downstrip of a program called MEMI that has been relesead as a part of a german VDI guideline. Otherwise, it won't be possible to compile the required data.

The 1984 Höppe paper was a Diploma thesis (!). We all know, how many errors there are in a diploma thesis. And so is in this one.

For the ENVI-met implementation of PET, we went back to the diploma thesis (not a great deal as it as in german) and then removed all the errors inside of it.

That was the basis of the completely re-designed PET modul in ENVI-met.

Still, there is an on going project at the university of Hamburg and she found still a number of errors in the corrected ENVI-met version.... So there is still space to go

Calculation time: The Biomet solves the procedure correctly on a scientific level. You might also get results much faster on a less strict level...

Also: If you don't change the domain settings in BioMet, the whole 3D space will be calculated, while I assume in the Grasshopper component mentioned here, only one 1D slice is calculated (-you can set this in ENVI-met Biomet, too)

Finally, I totally understand that the change from a totally free program to a payed program (if you need the full version) is not funny.

However, as the post in the forum and others show, there is a huge interest in ENVI-met form the architectural, landscape architectural or urban planing scene.

They all demand basic or new functions (what is right).

But with V4, ENVI-met cannot longer be handeld as a hobby project of mine (which it wasup to 3.1).

We're still not at the point to be able to hire programmers as permanent staff (which would be neccessary to cont our work) but with the selling of the SCIENCE and PRO licenses, we're at least able to carry on working.

Without this business model, it would be Version 3.1  forever,

Thanks for understanding and best of all

(Keeping track of this great component)

Michael

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Permalink Reply by djordje on February 27, 2017 at 4:52pm

Dear Michael,

Thank you for the detailed insight on both PET and ENVI-met!
Indeed ENVI-met has contributed a lot to Ladybug Analysis Tools plugin and comfort analysis in general! Hope to see more of your useful comments in here, in the future.

Permalink Reply by Abraham Yezioro on February 28, 2017 at 12:06am

Hi Michael,

Thanks a lot for the thorough comment. Very useful and learning.

I need to apologize for my comment on the calculation time. Completely forgot that indeed Biomet calculates ALL of the domain (as a default), while the LB component do that for only one section.

I'm always expecting the news on ENVImet developments. I understand the development constraints ... but this is not the forum to rise my personal issues with them :-). Maybe i'll write you a personal note.

Keep doing your excellent job with EM, i believe it is inspiring.

-A.

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