Need help about using Kangaroo for form finding

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Zhengyu Xue on May 4, 2016 at 8:41am

My Lord,

I've just sent a greet to you via email.

Hope you'll like it.

Best,

Zhengyu, Prince of Venus

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 4, 2016 at 9:11am

Dearest Prince of NeverStoppingWhilstYouShould

I'll look on it ASAP  [with the known kindliness (*) of The Lord]

(*) if you buy this you can buy anything.

best,  The Lord (ex Maharajah of HaddockLand)

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 4, 2016 at 11:23am

Dearest Naturally Born Killer

Excellent stuff > Bravo.

Since it's over and ... er ... the only way the hard way IS (Yoda top Jedi green hippie claims so) ... I'll mail you soon (as a bonus) Lord's C# solution on that freaky thingy.

Of course I could do it months ago ... but Yoda knows better what to give and when.

best 

Permalink Reply by Zhengyu Xue on May 4, 2016 at 12:16pm

My honored Ποσειδῶν , the brightest beacon in the ocean

Thank you for all your support and encouragement throughout my graduation process!!

In China there is a saying: "An accomplished disciple owes his accomplishments to his great teacher."  You are beyond great!

The parametric model I made is exceptionally complex. Expect your bonus and see how you make it work with C# codes.

Ahh, Yoda knows Jesus will revive just as Yoda knows I will find a way through.

beeeeest, Chocofire from the Coldarra

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 5, 2016 at 12:17am

Dear Prince of NothingCouldStopMe

My "teaching" approach is ruthless (and Darwinian): If the trainee breaks/abandons ship  > so what? > bring me the next one > discard the loser. It's a bit out of fashion these plastic days ...  but it works for the chosen ones.

Back to business:

1. A solution (in real-life) is a holistic approach: you should balance this (and that) having always the cost in mind.

2. A flat (or flattish) glass canopy/roof (with some minimal slope for drainage) is NOT a cheapo thingy: in order to avoid pockets of water you should use semi structural planar glazing (whilst the glass panels ... well ... hope that you understand what I mean: supporting loads and walking men for the cleaning). This is about 3 times pricier than a normal glazing system.

2. The "radial" tensegrity struts that support the glass "near the perimeter" have to withstand torsional forces ... thus "slightly" negating the truss mantra (only axial forces please). Did I've mentioned that they need levels of adjustability?

3. When cables meet the struts ... well this IS NOT the way to do it (more in the C#).

So ... what we have here? An expensive LBS solution (but WOW) that consumes pretty much all the budget and leaves peanuts to the thing for whom the whole structural thingy exists: the glass "canopy".

Moral: The thesis is excellent within the Academic bandwagon ... but ... as Yoda also claims: always the forest in mind have, the tree insignificant IS.

But since Yoda can't even speak English ... who cares?

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 5, 2016 at 12:36am

BTW: Israelis (Palram) do the best poly carbonate stuff known to man for transparent roofs (the best of their systems is first applied in Athens, he he).

But we can't combine a BMW M3 chassis with a WV Beetle engine (or we shouldn't).

Permalink Reply by Zhengyu Xue on May 5, 2016 at 2:33am

Dear Sennacherib King of Assyria,

It says there are five fundamental factors towards a man's success, they are diligence, talent, opportunity, background, and contacts. The reason why the society emphasizing importance of diligence, is because it's the only thing within the touch of every common/average/ordinary human. Compared to the rest four factors, it matters the least in the modern society. (Of course it does not mean without hardworking we can get the rest four for compensation.)  ...   Thus, Natural selection and survival of the fittest can be ruthlessly true for animals in the wild, but becomes more complicated during these plastic days.

Er...Your theory is also suitable...when I firstly came to Europe, I threw myself to the wild..

A bit far, but always nice to chat with you. Back to solid things:

1. Aim of the research is to use as little material as possible to make a roof for the opening under large asymmetric loading. Tensegrity tends to be far more expensive than pure beam or truss system although the material use could be less. But it provides special feeling and transparency. Structural engineers realize the vision of architects.

2. On above the top grid beam is an ETFE cushion for separation and insulation. According to some literature, ETFE cushion is self-cleaning. No need for man to walk on the roof. As for maintanence , a climb will be used for the maintainer  to reach the roof from inside. The climber will be hang on the cable. This point load is considered in calculation for the final structure. About drainage, it's true I didn't mention it in the thesis. Can the cushion lead the rain water to gutters at the edge of the roof?

2. About radial struts, they do not lead to the most efficient structure but architecturally of great importance. In the FEM modelling, torsion(around its own axis) is restricted, but struts can rotate in the other two directions. Is this enough? I know to realize the construction, both accuracy and levels of adjustability should be increased. 

3.Cables go through specially design connectors in between to parts of the struts (see connection). The connectors are tightened, the resulting friction force should restrict the rotation of cables.

Ho...I will consult the budget of this roof next Monday. And next time I talk to Germans, I will suggest them to combine Ferrari with the engine made in China..

Best, 

Moses heading for Canaan.

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 5, 2016 at 3:23am

Dear HumanisticPrinceOfThingsThatExistOnlyInTheory

1. Survival of the fittest was/is the only thingy that matters. Contemporary Society is in a constant decay because it tries to masquerade that simple fact. But why bother? You (with the proper ruthless training) you'll become the fittest bunny around. All signs certify that > you are a naturally born killer (but you don't know it - yet). Leave humanism for the losers.

2. For high class aesthetics  glass is the only way. EFTE deteriorates over time >  go for the eternal > avoid ephemeral. That said BirdAir does provide some stuff ... but glass is glass.

3. Light DOES not mean economical by any means. You'll discover that when ordering your proper Lamborghini (I do hope a Balboni: without ANY electronics > only for real men). Or you can try an ultra legera Ducati Panigale R (that costs 2 arms and 4 legs).

4. Cable design policy/adjustments/variants MUST take into account the fact that someone DOES the assembly manually: meaning that theory and reality differ vastly. One of these days a Skype session could teach you some stuff on that matter (mostly related with "deviations" from the ideally expected). My ultra complex connections posted from time to time are complex ... because they can handle any stupid action/mistake. 

That said Ferrari stopped doing proper cars (blame decay) long time ago: Last standing hero > the notorious F40 (lethal). Other options: GTO 250 (immortal), LM 250 (THE racer), SWB 250 (for California cruising).

But ... you can try an Ariel Atom instead (make a good life insurance first). If you survive, that is. He, he.

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 18, 2016 at 8:51am

Dear NeverStoppingWhilstYouShouldNeverMoving

The main iissue that you have is that the "near the perimeter" struts they severely violate (due to topology of a "quad lens" so to speak) 3 fundamental rules of motorcycling:

1. Never ride the long way home

2. Never ride the Ducati if the Honda is working.

3. Never ride if the Ferrari is ready and well (I do hope) serviced .

But since you would be a member of the killing elite (Lord knows these things) sooner of later ... I'll prepare a proper combo for the occasion (having - obviously - the 3 as above rules in mind).

Moral: Always is too late.

Permalink Reply by Zhengyu Xue on May 18, 2016 at 8:01am

Dear GreatMoseLeadMeToPromisedLand,

These days I am suffering from revising the thesis..As you said, the trees are insignificant.. I must make something I can be proud of. Apparently I need to make tremendous improvement...(Painful but that's the way for academic research) 

Today I want to ask some inspiration about the cable and strut connection. As is displayed in the pic above, connection in the first version may fail due to bending in the CHS. For connection in version 2, maybe I should strengthen the clamp by changing the shape and dimension.  I designed the slotted holes with an intention to apply only one type of connector for all the cable and strut connection. However, the slotted holes may not work because the cable will always touch only one side of the slotted hole, resulting in additional bending moments in struts. 

Do you have any idea about how to design one type of connector for all the cable-strut connection?

Best,

The ManDoesNotTakeABreakUntilThingsAreWellDone

Permalink Reply by peter fotiadis on May 18, 2016 at 10:26am

BTW: Remember that I've promised that the Lord (Himself) would deliver the thingy using solely C#? [4 in fact] Well ... that was ready months ago (but a trainee MUST suffer in order to prove himself worthy > the only way the hard way IS).

So the 1GZ (*) question is: what these images teach us? And if the struts are (obviously) made with 2 parts (literally or virtually) ... what sort of additional cables we need in order to stabilize the "upper" segment ? (that supports the glass). Otherwise we need thick struts that could sustain torque (the elephant leg syndrome).

(*) GZ for gazillion

If you answer that question (related with the 3 rules of motorcycling) you'll understand why the promised forthcoming "linkage" system is designed the way that is designed.

Permalink Reply by Zhengyu Xue on May 18, 2016 at 11:19am

Dear>..WhyNotMonsterWith4C#ForMyWholeDesinModel, 

Dear LordGenius,

Above is the quick image of my Grasshopper model...A lot of C# components, a lot of clusters... hundreds of components VS 4 C# components...This is the gap...1 Gazillion steps for me to walk to your level.. Last month I searched your Behance and LinkedIn profile. My reaction is "Godlike". Your interests are special, magnificent..I like them.. Hope one day I could be someone like you..

Oke, back to the solid things. From my understanding, in the first picture ,  you put a cross-shaped clamp in between two strut elements to restrict sliding between cable and strut. 

In this way you make the lower part a pure tensegrity because the connection will not transfer bending moment to the strut element in between the cable net. This could work, but the resultant deflection would be extremely higher compared to the fixed connection of two strut components.(I proved it in Appendix C)

Additionally, I'm afraid the cross need to be longer to avoid failure due to the large pretension(160kN in each cable). If the cross is made with a length of 100mm~500mm, then the angle(in xz plane and yz plane) of the cross matters, to avoid additional bending moments still the connections will be different at different positions.

Tomorrow I will switch off the bending moment and check the FEM results of the final model.

Best,

PrinceWhoTakeTheLordAsAHero

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