Modelled using Rhino/Construction Phase

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Permalink Reply by taz on March 5, 2010 at 4:53pm

There's no magic bullet.

But if you've already done the 3D work in Rhino and GH, why would you switch to DP?

If you need to do drawing production, BIM software is good, but in most cases you would have to remodel everything in the BIM software. For example you can import families from Rhino into Revit but the geometry doesn't have all the intelligence of the standard Revit elements because it's just a "dumb" reference.

If you're not willing to reconstruct everything in a BIM package (and depending on how crazy your geometry is, it may be extremely difficult to reconstruct it in BIM) another option may be use the traditional ACAD approach and issue your 3D Rhino model as a deliverable to contractor for the geometry.

Contractor can then use the Rhino model to inform their means and methods, which may be cheaper/preferable for Contractor anyway.

See attached for an example project with a Rhino model as a deliverable.

Attachments:

• Arup_Journal_3_2009.pdf, 451 KB

Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on March 6, 2010 at 4:39am

Hi Arthur,

Indeed there is no magic bullet, I wish there was.
You'll have to make as careful and considered assessment as you can to determine the best means of documenting and defining your structure.

I can point you to a couple of examples of structures at Expedition that we issued the primary set-out information to the contractor in digital form as a Rhino File. These particular structures necessitated this, trying to document tapered structures without "pure" mathematical setout would have been inefficient and problematic using traditional CAD drawings. You will need to have a close working relationship with the contractor/fabricator. For example, we would issue the entire model due various phases, and we used special line-type names assigned to layers to denote status such as "For Construction", "For Information", etc etc so that this information is clearly defined.

Infinity bridge is a project everyone that was involved in was proud of, http://www.expedition.uk.com/index.php?pid=28 . All the setout of this form found dual arch bridge, that the box girder bifurcated over the centre support and tapered in size along it's length with inclined webs was defined in our Rhino model. Of course we still had to issue traditional 2d plans, elevations and sections (which were primarily exported line work from sectioning in Rhino), as builders don't generally walk around with laptops (and there was 3rd party checking, contract letting etc that don't work so well with digital models).

Also, the Entrance Transfer Structure at 55 Baker Street - http://www.expedition.uk.com/index.php?pid=55 (First photo in sequence) was our first project in communicating to the contractor with Rhino models as primary set-out.

Both of these projects were a success, but you have to be really careful and diligent with the models and the checking of them (not that that is any different to any drawing/model preperation). The slightest error could be quite costly if first detected when the project is on site being assembled.

I can also say, that many of the tools for exchanging (importing and exporting) of structure models that you can try from http://www.geometrygym.com/downloads are being used by quite a few firms around the globe for more typical skeletal steel frame projects. Many of the analysis programs can then be used to transfer the structure directly to BIM like REVIT, and some custom spreadsheet formats allow transfer to/from Digital Project. I can't really say in public the projects these are being used on, but I can say they are renowned designers on quite high profile projects.

Even if the tools are used for coordinating and checking with your Rhino model if you need to redevelop from scratch, they will save you time and effort, and a key aspect of the service of these tools is near immediate support with custom and bespoke aspects that your project demands.

Feel free to get in touch if you wish to discuss this privately, I'm happy to try and help you if you desire.

Cheers,

Jon




The Infinity Foot

Permalink Reply by Wiktor Kidziak on February 25, 2011 at 10:13pm

Hello Jon,

I am really interested in the structure of the

"Entrance Transfer Structure at 55 Baker Street -http://www.expedition.uk.com/index.php?pid=55 (First photo in sequence)"

Do you know if I can find any plan or section drawings of it? Is it steel or concrete? Did you design it using grasshopper?

 

Thanks

wk



Permalink Reply by Jon Mirtschin on February 26, 2011 at 3:28am

Hi Wiktor,

 

Interesting to read through this discussion again, given I've been concentrating on addressing many of these issues in the past 3 or 4 months.

 

The transfer structure was a really interesting project, my first introduction to Rhino (I'd resisted despite strong encouragement at Expedition prior to being assigned to this project).

 

It's very thick steel plates (to keep the section dimensions as small as possible) to form the legs and arms.  The exisiting structure was all reinforced concrete from the 1960s.

 

It was designed pre-Grasshopper, given this project again I would certainly do it within grasshopper.  It was a combination of rhinoscript and macros that we used to finalize the form and assess impact of variations. 

 

I doubt very much there are drawings in the public domain.  I can provide some broad descriptions if you have questions.  The 2008 ssda brochure (you can download as a pdf from http://www.corusconstruction.com/en/news_and_events/awards/structur...

contains some descriptions.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon 

Permalink Reply by dominic on February 26, 2011 at 2:56am

Have you tried just referencing the rhino file in microtstion?

Mstn has dynamic views are pretty quick at sectioning models.

Can gh output the construction planes or coordinate systems? I think that this is key for further work in another appp.

There are some vids from Zach kron's buildz blog on conversion to Revit. Not very promising. There doesn't seem to be a way to transfer the algorithms, which makes changes post hand over very difficult.